Module 14 Europe and Western Asia in Middle Ages Discussion come up with a question or topic of interest to you. This could be anything you found confusing

Module 14 Europe and Western Asia in Middle Ages Discussion come up with a question or topic of interest to you. This could be anything you found confusing, any connections you may have made with other material (past or present), links to other cultures or fields of inquiry, etc. Post your initial post of at least 250 words where you bring up what resonated with you the most in the weekly reading and why. Then, respond to at least 2 peers (minimum of 250 words per response)look at the uploaded file 11/29/2019
Topic: Module 14 Discussion
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This is a graded discussion: 100 points possible
due Dec 1
37
Module 14 Discussion
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Lilia Anand
Please complete the readings for this week (including the document) and come up with a question or
topic of interest to you. This could be anything you found confusing, any connections you may have
made with other material (past or present), links to other cultures or fields of inquiry, etc. Post your
initial post of at least 250 words where you bring up what resonated with you the most in the
weekly reading and why. Then, respond to at least 2 peers (minimum of 250 words per response).
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Isabel Flores
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(https://unt.instructure.com/courses/17318/users/120776)
Nov 16, 2019
Seriously I love the Venetians these lords of the sea and trade were the economic powerhouse of
Europe in the 8th through 18th centuries. This Maritime Republic controlled trade on the
Mediterranean Sea they traded with the Orient and held monopolies over all important trade
relations.
The most important trading partner that the Venetians had to be with the Byzantines and then the
Ottoman Empire. Their close proximity to one another made them ideal trading partners the
Ottomans sold them silk, spices, and wheat in exchange Venice sold textiles, soap, and paper. It
was a well thought out match for the Venetians trade was essential to their cities survival that was
comprised of many small islands and had very little land for agriculture. They also became skilled
diplomats and middlemen with Muslim traders that rarely went to Venice. One such man was the
artist Gentile Bellini who went to Istanbul to the court of Memhet II in 1479. Even for these masters
of the high seas they cold not dominate forever and eventually had their slow and steady decline.
The Venetians were constantly at war with the Ottoman empire for control of the Aegean and
Adriatic sea and the islands within them a series of wars fought in; 1423, 1463, 1499, and 1503.
Relations between the two would remain intense as the Turks would bar them from the Black Sea
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and eventually with the last war in 1714 the Venetians would loose the Peloponnese peninsula in
Southern Greece.
For such a tiny nation it sure did manage to hold onto its trade empire until the 18th century, a tiny
and resourceful nation that managed to keep its nation intact and relatively free from war and
political infighting and direct its energies to expanding their trade networks.
(http
Rachel Ristevski
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(https://unt.instructure.com/courses/17318/users/162453)
Nov 18, 2019
In another class we are discussing cultural bias and prejudice regarding the Islamic faith so I
was very interested to read about the crusades. I knew there had been some sort of constant
turmoil since the crusades but I didn’t fully understand why the crusades happened. As is a
common theme in history, it seems like motivations for the crusades revolved mostly around
leadership goals disguised as religious defense. The crusaders pressed on blindly through
horrific conditions all for the sake of defending Christianity. After the first crusade it seems like
the Christians did not accomplish much more than a lot of lives lost. It is hard to believe that
people banded together seven more times after this but to no avail. After the Muslims took
back Jerusalem in 1187 the crusader states became more important as an access to eastern
luxury products which fostered trade between Europe and Asia. The disadvantages of the
crusades far outweigh the benefits of trade. Ideas against Jews and Muslims that were for the
most part completely false were ingrained in the minds of Christians and these ideas are still
lingering today. I think the crusades can be looked at as part of the basis for Jewish
oppression along with Native American oppression. Christopher Columbus intended to set up
a Christian base in India where a new crusade against Islam could be launched and while he
may have landed on unintended land, that did not hinder his hopes to force Christianity upon
its inhabitants.
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Rachel Ristevski
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(https://unt.instructure.com/courses/17318/users/162453)
Nov 18, 2019
Sorry! Disregard my response.. it was supposed to be my initial post.
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Michael Valderrama
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(https://unt.instructure.com/courses/17318/users/151162)
Tuesday
Dear Isabel,
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You reference the constant warfare between the Serene Republic of Venice and the Ottoman
Empire in the 15th and 16th centuries and say that they remained relatively conflict-free during
the 18th century. This latter bit of information is debatable since two nearby countries with such
a long enmity usually do not return to friendly terms until they either fight together against a
common enemy or until one of them is destroyed. Saying that the military of the Republic of
Venice was inactive in the 18th century is not necessarily true. Venetian troops were involved
in military actions against the Ottomans at the beginning of the century and against the French
at the end of it, with a considerable remilitarization under Marshal Johann Matthias Reichsgraf
von der Schulenburg in 1729. Contrary to what you stated, the military history of Venice does
not end with the loss of the Peloponnese, but rather in 1797. Napoleon’s war with Austria
spread into Venice, and with his capture of the city came its fall.
You are correct, though, that Venice’s primary focus during the Crusader era was through
trading with the rest of the world. You are also correct that Muslim merchants rarely visited
Venice, which allowed them to continue their role as the middlemen between European and
Middle Eastern trade. You might find it interesting that when a Venetian merchant would visit
his counterparts in the Middle East, he would usually bring, among other fine things only
accessible in Europe, a gift of cheese – which was rare in the Arab world. (Carboni, S. “Venice
and the Islamic World, 828 – 1797.” 2007.) Parmesan-style cheeses were among the most
valued diplomatic gifts that a merchant could offer and were usually reserved for the likes of
governors, pashas or amirs. And before you picture a man giving a box of shredded cheese to
a sultan, (because of course you would, American haha) you should know that the parmesan
cheese was transported in wheel form.
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Rachel Ristevski
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(https://unt.instructure.com/courses/17318/users/162453)
Nov 18, 2019
In another class we are discussing cultural bias and prejudice regarding the Islamic faith so I was
very interested to read about the crusades. I knew there had been some sort of constant turmoil
since the crusades but I didn’t fully understand why the crusades happened. As is a common
theme in history, it seems like motivations for the crusades revolved mostly around leadership
goals disguised as religious defense. The crusaders pressed on blindly through horrific conditions
all for the sake of defending Christianity. After the first crusade it seems like the Christians did not
accomplish much more than a lot of lives lost. It is hard to believe that people banded together
seven more times after this but to no avail. After the Muslims took back Jerusalem in 1187 the
crusader states became more important as an access to eastern luxury products which fostered
https://unt.instructure.com/courses/17318/discussion_topics/227803?module_item_id=951150
3/26
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Topic: Module 14 Discussion
trade between Europe and Asia. The disadvantages of the crusades far outweigh the benefits of
trade. Ideas against Jews and Muslims that were for the most part completely false were ingrained
in the minds of Christians and these ideas are still lingering today. I think the crusades can be
looked at as part of the basis for Jewish oppression along with Native American oppression.
Christopher Columbus intended to set up a Christian base in India where a new crusade against
Islam could be launched and while he may have landed on unintended land, that did not hinder his
hopes to force Christianity upon its inhabitants.
(http
Michael Valderrama

(https://unt.instructure.com/courses/17318/users/151162)
Tuesday
Rachel,
You say that the disadvantages of the crusades far outweigh the benefits of trade. I
vehemently disagree. I could go so far as to say that you personally would not be the same
person you are today without the crusades. Let me explain:
When European crusaders sacked the Levant, they built a network of not just trade, but
information. Aside from importing things like sugar, silk, and spices that would otherwise not
be available to Europe without a middle eastern connection, they also found more accurate
maps and learned how to use the magnetic compass, which, while invented by the Chinese,
was only accessible via the silk road, which until the time of the crusades, no one in Western
Europe had access to. Alongside that, new shipbuilding techniques allowed Western
Europeans to build oceangoing vessels like the carrack (from the Arabic al-qurqoor) and the
caravel (from the Arabic qarib).
From that alone, we can surmise that without the compass or new shipbuilding techniques,
Columbus’s journey to America would have been impossible, since he would have 1) no
access to Greco-Roman science, 2) no boats capable of crossing the Atlantic Ocean, 3) no
compasses or navigational equipment. Therefore, the only Europeans who would be able to
settle America would probably be the Vikings, sailing on their longboats through the Labrador
Sea. From that, America would remain by and large populated by small groups of Norsemen
on the East Coast, with native Americans still deep inside the continent.
From your family name, I am guessing you are at least part Macedonian. Like many other
American families, your ancestors immigrated from Macedonia to the United States. If the
crusades had never happened, and Columbus had not “discovered” America and spread the
news of his discovery through Western Europe, the first immigrant-invaders would not have
been Spanish conquistadors or English pilgrims, and the United States would never come into
existence. Your ancestors would never have migrated to the “new world” in the western
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hemisphere because there would be no existing country that would be open to “republican
freedom,” and they would have thus stayed in Macedonia.
Furthermore, more likely than not – your phone (if it ever came to be invented) would be from
a Middle Eastern tech company, since without the crusades, Greco-Roman math and science
would never come to Europe.
(http
Jacob Wallin
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(https://unt.instructure.com/courses/17318/users/2980)
Tuesday
Rachel,
The crusades are a controversial time in history, especially for the Christian church. It is a
period that, in my upbringing at least, is not looked upon favorably even growing up as a
christian, and that a lot of people have tried to downplay or forget. When Pope Urban II gave
what is believed to be one of the best speeches in history in 1095 (which funny enough had an
anniversary this week, November 27th), the people were whipped up into a frenzy. The
Catholic church was one of the dominant forces of the time, both politically and socially, so it
had a lot of power over the people at the time. The motivations of the First Crusade were not
entirely misguided, Christians had been making pilgrimages to the Holy Land for centuries, but
were now barred from Jerusalem now that the Seljuk Turks had taken it over. The Turks were
also threatening to invade the Byzantine Empire, which would have been a major blow to all of
Europe and get them that much closer to pushing into East and Central Europe. Pope Urban II
was asked by the Byzantine Emperor for help and he agreed to provide it to bolster his own
power but also to protect European interests. Whether that was right is up for debate, but it
was a complicated situation. After the First Crusade however, the motivations definitely
became less honorable and more about sacking territory for riches. There was still some
religious motivation behind it, on one crusade the crusaders even think they found the Holy
Lance, the spear that had pierced Jesus’ side while on the cross, but ultimately few of the
crusades amounted to much more than misguided raids on cities that may or may not have
even been involved. What is especially unfortunate is that, like you said, this is a wound that
still has not healed, and there are still tensions between the Abrahamic religions, especially in
regards to the Holy Land.
(http
Bryce Martin
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(https://unt.instructure.com/courses/17318/users/64339)
Tuesday
Hello, Rachel, I enjoyed reading your discussion post. We are alike in being interested in the
crusades. I liked how you pointed out, in my opinion, the real reason behind the crusades,
which were specific individuals who wanted to get a leg up in the world. The phrase, if you
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don’t succeed try, try again was taken to heart by the people who led the crusades because
there were multiple crusades that all failed. I agree with you that the disadvantages outweigh
the benefits of it. All that was accomplished was a large amount of death loss of money. This
was a testament to how seriously religion was taken. People were willing to travel hundreds of
thousands of miles to a foreign land they do not know to set up trade so that the nobles and
royals could pad their pockets. I do believe reclaiming the holy land was a big part of it, but I
think the people who sanctioned it had money on their minds. Another part of it was the belief
that Christianity was right and was the only religion that should be worshipped. People felt the
need to slaughter people and invade their land because they believed Christianity was the
superior religion. This is similar to bloody mary reigning all-out war on protestants in England,
Louis the 14th also did the same in France. Religion is taken seriously today, but I do believe it
had calmed down. I could not picture another crusade happening in 2019.
(http
Hetal Patel
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(https://unt.instructure.com/courses/17318/users/56703)
Wednesday
Hello Rachel, I also thought Crusaders were very interesting. The expansion of Christianity in
the Middle Ages was not limited to Europe but extended to the eastern Mediterranean in what
have later termed the Crusaders. In the late thirteenth century, the Crusaders were wars
sponsored by the papacy to recover the holy city of Jerusalem from the Muslims. Thousands
of people of all classes responded to Urban’s call, joining what became known as the First
Crusade and it was most successful mostly because of the dynamic enthusiasm of the
participants, who little more than religious zeal. They also took many different sea and routes
on their way to Jerusalem, which led the conflicts with the Eastern Christians. With the
Jerusalem take, some Crusaders regarded their missions as accomplished and set off for
home, others stayed setting up institutions to rule local territories and the Muslim population.
Four small Crusaders states-Jerusalem, Edessa, Tripoli, and Antioch- were established and
castles and fortified towns were built in these states to defend against Muslims reconquest.
Most Crusaders were men, but some women came along as well, assisting in the besieging of
towns and castles by providing water to fighting men or foraging for food, working as
washerwomen, and also provide sexual services. After the Muslims retook Jerusalem, the
crusading movement faced other setbacks. During the Fourth Crusade, Crusaders stopped in
Constantinople, and when they were not welcomed, they sacked the city. The Byzantine
Empire splintered into three parts and soon consisted of little more than the city of
Constantinople. Moreover, the assault of one Christian people on another made the split
between the churches permanent and discredited the entire crusading movement in the eye of
many Christian.
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Abril Cervantes
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(https://unt.instructure.com/courses/17318/users/144753)
Monday
Something that was interesting this week to me was the section about the Christian Church. It is
always something that is quite interesting to me to read and to learn about. In the 11th century the
papacy had strong reasons for wanting to launch an expedition against Muslims in the East. When
i first read this in the textbook i really honestly did not understand. I was not sure what papacy
was, just that it sounded like pope or something having to so with it. Papacy is the office or
authority of the pope, according the the dictionary. So the pope and others officials gained support
for this cause, anyone who supported and who was willing to go to war for this was rewarded by or
was promised spiritual benefits. That specific sentence really jumped out at me because this was
during the 11th and 12th centuries. People really thought about miracles and spiritual things in the
positive way. It is seen or i know in other classes i have read about thus. About the church saying
they would provide some sort of spiritual help if these people give money or their life for the
church.
Also, during these centuries there was an expansion of the religion into Scandinavia, Baltic lands,
Eastern Europe and the Eastern expansion . being organized by the Eastern Orthodox Church. It
is interesting to see how the book tracks and talks about the expansion of religion. Also doing my
own research on the side and really understanding the subject more helped me understand.
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Brian Finley
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(https://unt.instructure.com/courses/17318/users/63820)
Tuesday
Hello Abril, this is an interesting topic to read about for me as well. During this time
Christianity expanded to many parts of Europe including northern and eastern Europe and
Christian rules expanded their land in Muslim Spain. So in a way the Papacy has to do
something with the Pope its just not the Pope. Papacy is the the decisions and the Pope’s
authority. Pope Gregory VII strongly champion reform and the expansion of papal power.
Christianity is a very depth and interesting topic to talk about.
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Alex Randermann
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(https://unt.instructure.com/courses/17318/users/120353)
Tuesday
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Hello Abril,
I really enjoyed reading your response to what you found to be the most interesting aspect of
these weeks assigned readings. I too, think the Christian Church and the Crusades was a very
appealing topic to cover. I really liked how you explained the importance of the papacy and
what it means to the Catholic Church. The papacy basically being the office of the Pope is
very important in the decision making when the crusades were going on in the 11th and 12th
centuries. I had trouble understanding what the papacy meant as well. One thing that I found
to be the most interesting when learning about the Crusades was how the Pope claimed that
you would receive “Spiritual Benefits” in return for your efforts in the war. You previously
mentioned this as well. One other important aspect to consider would be how the Pope would
tell stories about…
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